I had previously compared the grunge era titans of Nirvana and Pearl Jam, and it seems that in every era there are bands that are forever linked together for some reason. The Beatles and The Stones, The Sex Pistols and The Clash, Oasis and Blur ,sometimes there are more, Metallica, Megadeath, Slayer and Anthrax, the list can go on. This is generally because the music hipsters (geeks) like to categorise everything.
By putting two or more bands together it allows us to define an era in music by bringing together usually the two most influential, or best selling artists in one conversation. Which suits my purposes well . .
A couple of bands that often get put together are the titans of classic rock/ metal Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. Any discussion you have about the 70s and guitar based music must include these two. It is really that simple. Many have made arguments for one or the other being the best band of all time. Arguable i guess. Why do people go so crazy for these bands, i mean are they actually any good?? If so which is better?
Well, it of course depends on your musical tastes, if you have any taste you would say yes, they are very good. If you don't and you like the catchy songs of Britney, then I guess you will miss the point a little bit.
Zep have to go down as the most influential blues based music band of the ages so far. If you say the name even people who have no interest in music of this sort what so ever will still know the band thanks to the almost ubiquitous nature of Stairway to Heaven.
Here is a version for fun
I honestly do not know what to make of that. i am not sure if it is sublimely brilliant , or a travesty of nature. . .you decide. I looked for a similar type of cover of a Sabbath song and there are almost none that are not extremely serious. I am not sure if this is significant or not.
Zep released an amazingly high quality of music across their career. If you think about it, the only really bad album is In through the out Door (Coda doesn't really count to be honest as it is a discarded songs album). I read an article where Jimmy Page agreed that Physical Graffiti is their best album. Honestly though, it is reasonably easy to make an argument for II or IV and there are some definite highlights on Houses of the Holy and on Presence.
Sabbath have a far less consistent back catalog. The first four albums they released are some of the strongest albums ever released. After that, well it does go down a bit. They have actually released 18 albums. This takes into account the many line up changes. There are some absolute gems in there. Heaven and Hell, the Ronnie James Dio (RIP) album after Ozzy was kicked out / left, is really worth checking out.
Zep have the historical edge in so far as they only ever had the same line up, released a very definite series of albums and that was it. This does help because whilst they were hitting a decline , this can be overlooked as they split up before it became too obvious. I think the interesting part for both bands is that they released their most incredible music in a very short space in time. 1969 to 1975 basically.
That is the first song of the first Sabbath album. imagine hearing that for the first time in 1970. The difference from that to the other music that was around, even by Zep is quite marked. This is perhaps the point though. It is extremely difficult to put these two bands into the same category. Honestly, even in the areas that they seemingly have a sound that is not a million ways from each other, there is the distinctiveness of the lead vocals from Plant and Ozzy respectively that make the songs so uniquely theirs.
try this, this is from Master of Reality, Sabbaths third album, and is Children of the grave
This is Immigrant Song off of :Led Zeppelin III
Both have the driving beat and rhythm, they are clearly produced in the same sort of time, given the sound they are going for. yet one sounds far heavier and the other far more textured with the individual instruments carving their own paths through the song. Both are brilliant. I love listening and comparing like this when the music is just so good.
Popular opinion in this battle of the titans will always go to Zep. They achieved a mainstream success and a continued airplay that almost no other band has achieved. And everywhere you look , particularly in the 80s you saw someone trying to rip them off in either the mannerisms or the sound. Jimmy Page 's guitar work has to be considered in the very top echelon. This is not to overlook the rest of the band, a group of musicians who came together and created an amazing sound.
How well does it stand up though? i am not entirely sure in 2011 that it stands up as well as Black Sabbath. Honestly, you listen to the Sabbath albums and there is a driving modernity there which has not lost the sheen even after 40 years. I think that this is because Zeppelin are so much part of the musical landscape that there is nothing much new to find in their music. Where as with Sabbath there does seem to be. Perhaps this is because like most people i went through a massive Zep stage and as such i have found all i needed to find in their music. i find myself not looking for it much anymore. Whereas i would very happily put on Masters of Reality or Sabbath Vol 4 in the car to drive around the corner.
So to answer my original questions? Are they any good? oh yes, yes indeed, they are brain meltingly good.
I can not recommend their albums more highly to anyone. This is the reason why blues based guitar music is so good. if you do not own any albums by these bands then you must be prepared for a little hit in the wallet by try to get
Zeppelin: II, IV Physical Graffiti, Houses of the Holy, III
Sabbath: Black Sabbath, Paranoid, Master of Reality, Black Sabbath Vol 4, Sabbath bloody Sabbath
As to which one is better? Well now that is far far more difficult. I am going to go against popular opinion here and say i think Sabbath are better. This is because of the point I made above about these always being something in their music to (re) discover. it is also because of an interview i saw with Rob Zombie who said something along the lines, of, there is nothing that Sabbath didn't do in the metal area. Every riff you hear is something created by Tommi Iomi which is being ripped off in some way. Sabbath are the originators of a new musical genre. Metal. Zeppelin stand alone in their virtuosity and there is a very real reason why they are so popular.
This is my favourite Sabbath song today
As a footnote, i wanted to point out that whilst Robert Plant is considered a better singer than Ozzy, he has not produced anything like the quality of this in his solo career - was he carried by Page?
Don't ever write Ozzy off as the joke character he portrayed on that terrible MTV show.
That point you made is exactly it. Led Zeppelin stand alone in their own spot. Black sabbath were actually influential. How can you be influenced by Led Zeppelin without trying to actually sound like them? In Sabbath's title track alone, they invented both 'doom metal' and 'New Wave Of British Heavy Metal' Both very distinct genres. And 'Changes' gave birth to the hair bands power ballad.
ReplyDeleteListen to Dazed and Confused and how do you find it's influence? It is so individual to Zep that all you can take from it is the idea that you must explore and expand your musical playing ability. No genre influence there. I don't think.
I like Sabbath but I prefer Zeppelin because I like a canvas with several colours on it than just two or three.
I like to listen to Black Dog (arguably the heaviest riff ever? Coupled with Bonham's of the beat time keeping?) then have it followed by some Old English sounding folk music and then on into a good ol' Rock and Roll song.
When I want Bludgeoning, I listen to Masters and Vol. 4.
By the way, that cover by the Beatnix is from a compilation album called "Stairways To Heaven". It was released in '91 or '92 and features these guys along with a bunch of other tribute bands, like, The Rock Lobsters, an Elvis impersonator, The Australian Doors Show, and; Rolf Harris! It's worth finding.
A couple of points of this one. The new wave of British Heavy Metal did not start with Sabbath. TNWBHM started with Venom , Priest and Maiden. That is why it was the new wave, after Sabbath started to implode and Kiss went disco . . Doom metal is a far later genre and whilst i agree that the opening Sabbath song has some doom elements in it, this wasn't really invented until the 90s or so.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that Zeppelin probably have more diverse elements to their music, I think you have to give another listen to some of the Sabbath albums. there is a lot more there than just Paranoid.
Actually the whole Stairways to Heaven actually came from an Australian TV show, done by a guy called Andrew Denton and I watched it all on TV in the early 90s. I have it
The heaviest riff ever ?? possibly wait and bleed by Slipknot, or dead bodies everywhere by Lorn, Chop Suey, SOAD, etc etc, dude, Zeppelin arent even metal, more hard Rock . .
What I mean is that these later genres drew from something that Sabbath did years before and developed it into a whole genre of it's own. I know when the genres started but elements of them can be found long before. I do have all those sabbath albums and like them all. I have a hard time with Technical Ecstasy and Never say die but I like the Dio albums and Born Again. I guess I like Black Sabbath to Sabotage and then the three post Ozzy albums. My favorite song (this week) is Symptom of The Universe.
ReplyDeleteAnd I know Zep aren't Metal though they were often on metal mags in the late 70's and 80's. Very odd indeed.
And I think Black Dog stands up to any riff nowadays, a big part of it being Bonham's off the beat time keeping which being a musician myself, just gives me shivers.
Black Sabbath is the original Evil riff that I always think about when I listen to Sunn O))). or even some of the Melvins etc...
I remember when Iron Maiden first started and at first, the media (at least around here) thought it had more to do with punk than metal, but it got straightened out fairly soon.
Maiden and Priest- Number Of The Beast and Screaming For Vengeance, my High School years. I was very involved. I can see the influences through the years being absorbed here, showing up there etc...
Somewhat annoyingly, i tend to agree with everything you have said here. I heard an interview from Rob Zombie who said that everything was invented by Tommi Iommi, every metal riff. Everything you hear is his rif, played faster, played slower, backwards. Although i know this is an exageration, I think that it shows that most people acknowledge that everything starts from there and has worked it way out of the 10 seconds of the particular song wherever it started. So you are right about Doom metal.
ReplyDeleteI think that my favourite Sabbath song is snow blind. Just because.
I think Maidens issue at the begging was that their first singer Paul Di Anno had a far more Punk vocal style. not the soaring operatic metal style that Bruce Dickenson has.
I rock! Yay!
ReplyDeleteZeppelin not influential?
ReplyDeleteThink about what "The Rover" means to Black and Power Metal.
Or where Dale Crover and Dave Grohl would be without Bonham.
Melvins "Nude with Boots" can only be categorized "Zeppelinesque" without being a copy.
While i thank you for commenting, I do actually say 'Zep have to go down as the most influential blues based band of all time' So I am not sure what you are on about. . Saw a Zeppelin cover band last night actually. Boot Led Zeppelin, they were very good
ReplyDelete